EF-2000 EFA Eurofighter Typhoon

[Roberto Montesa]

Osea que el IRST a los alemanes les dura lo que la bombona de refrigeracion de la cabeza del misil...

[Orel]

Hombre, no es una absurdez. Suplen la falta de IRST con el único medio del que disponen, que es el sensor del misil infrarrojo.

Júpiter, entiéndase que es como justificar lo injustificable, "excusatio non petita...". Como lo que ha dicho Tercio, de no tener radar y decir que usas el del AMRAAM.

Como dice Orel, el IRST es un sensor pasivo. No se puede interferir. Tampoco hay una señal que delate al IRST.

Eso son ventajas vitales.
Las ventajas de un sensor (p.ej. radar) se complementan con las ventajas del otro (p.ej. IRST), o lo que es lo mismo, los puntos débiles de uno se cubren con los fuertes del otro.
Afinando a tope, a veces los IRST llevan telémetro láser, detectable. Pero como todo: no lo activas y punto. Hay modos que permiten conocer distancia bastante bien sólo usando el sensor IR.

y la versatilidad de los radares modernos sobre los IRST son claros

... y el radar es todotiempo, como no los IRST. Los más capaces atraviesan ciertas nubes, cierta lluvia... pero no son todotiempo.

El AIM-120D C8 debe tener un NEZ cercano y no superior al Meteor.

Ni de lejos. Empuje inicial vs. empuje continuo. Cualquier misil con motor cohete pierde en comparación muchísima más energía con cada maniobra una vez gastado el cohete, lo mismo pasa cuando es lanzado contra un blanco que se aleja del lanzador. La NEZ del Meteor es y será bien superior a todo lo existente, hasta que alguien saque otro misil con empuje continuo.

Aun puedes detectar al caza con tu IRST y buscar poder lanzar tu WVRAAM

O BVRAAM. Los alcances IRST actuales permiten usarlos junto con BVRAAM. Y más ahora con misiles con enlaces doble vía con el caza lanzador.

sin embargo no entiendo muy bien que beneficios tiene detectar a un F-22A a 60 kilómetros con tu IRST,... Quizá sea una mejor forma de obtener datos del objetivo? no creo que el IRST pueda calcular velocidad, altura del objetivo, o si?

Lo dicho: Las ventajas de un sensor (p.ej. radar) se complementan con las ventajas del otro (p.ej. IRST), o lo que es lo mismo, los puntos débiles de uno se cubren con los fuertes del otro.
Siempre es mejor tener más sensores distintos, y a los hechos nos remitimos.

no creo que el IRST pueda calcular velocidad, altura del objetivo, o si?

Al menos el Pirate obtiene bastante más datos de los que creemos. Y no es sólo eso, es ese sensor en conjunción y fusionado con los demás.

Lo que me llama la atención de todo esto es que el OSF francés, al no poder buscar, no tiene utilidad contra furtivos.

El OSF y el OSF-IT pueden buscar y seguir, sin problema, usando sus sensores TV-CCD. Sólo que en el primero el IRST no es funcional y en el segundo quitaron la vía IR. Pero igualmente puede buscar y seguir automáticamente con TV-CCD.

les dura lo que la bombona de refrigeracion de la cabeza del misil...

Roberto, mientras está enchufado al avión, éste le provee de refrigeración (no recuerdo si por sí mismo, o con bombonas extra en el lanzador). ¿Podéis recordármelo exactamente?

Un saludo

[jupiter]

Hombre, no es una absurdez. Suplen la falta de IRST con el único medio del que disponen, que es el sensor del misil infrarrojo.

Júpiter, entiéndase que es como justificar lo injustificable, "excusatio non petita...". Como lo que ha dicho Tercio, de no tener radar y decir que usas el del AMRAAM.

Es que no creo que los pilotos alemanes justifiquen la ausencia del Pirate. Me juego una caja de cervezas (o dos), que si pudiesen elegir, lo tendrían instalado.
Simplemente explican cómo intentan paliar esa carencia. Al menos así lo veo.
He podido hablar con pilotos de varias fuerzas aéreas, y nunca he encontrado uno que justificase la ausencia de un equipo, la excusa que siempre he escuchado es la misma. Dinero.

[Chema]

Me alegro que despues de estar varios años hablando de las ventajas del IRST , haya por fin mas gente en el foro de la misma opinion.

[Orel]

Chema, ¿cómo que "por fin"? De toda la vida hemos puesto aquí ventajas de los IRST. Análisis, opiniones... Creo que te habías despistado si no lo habías visto Lo que no significa que los furtivos dejen de serlo, ni que dejen de tener ventaja.
Y volvamos al EFA. Esto para el tema de cazas contemporáneos.

[Orel]

Una exageración, pero sirve para recordar los concursos en los que está metido el EFA (y falta alguno): Bélgica (34), Bulgaria (8), Finlandia (64), Suiza (40), Alemania (90), Canadá (88) e India (114).
http://www.infodefensa.com/mundo/2018/0 ... uropa.html
Editado: faltan Polonia (¿50?) y Malasia (18).
Hay aún posibilidad de otro lote para Arabia Saudí. En España y RU ha habido rumor de posible compra de algunos más. Por mi parte, no incluyo países a los que se haya ofrecido de segunda mano.

[evol]

Sin tener ninguna idea, y solo con los comentarios y artículos de las revistas, como no sean las opciones de Alemania y Finlandia....

[alejandro_]

Una exageración, pero sirve para recordar los concursos en los que está metido el EFA (y falta alguno): Bélgica (34), Bulgaria (8), Finlandia (64), Suiza (40), Alemania (90), Canadá (88) e India (110).

Me parece que el autor se ha liado un poco porque los concursos europeos que cita suman 196 ejemplares. Recalco que son europeos. Otros países del consorcio podrían adquirir más, pero 300 se me hacen muchos. Bulgaria ha recibido ofertas por EF-2000 de segunda mano, no nuevos.

[Orel]

Sin tener ninguna idea, y solo con los comentarios y artículos de las revistas, como no sean las opciones de Alemania y Finlandia....

Sí, es muy difícil.
Durante varios años, hasta el presente, el mayor mercado potencial ha sido Oriente Medio, y se ha dado muy bien. Pero todos esos países ya eligieron, así que ahora se focaliza en Europa y Asia.

Me parece que el autor se ha liado un poco

Por eso dije que era una exageración.

[Roberto]

La verdad que Mr Trump podría pedir un cargo en el consorcio Eurofighter .Como siga así lo va comprar hasta Canada.....

[bandua]

lo más probable es lo de A. Saudí y Alemania. el resto muy complicado aunque con opciones excepto el de india que me parece que está casi imposible. Están en el tejas, tienen una fábrica de Su30 que les salen baratitos y además si buscasen algo similar al EFT, lo lógico sería seguir con el Rafale.

[Orel]

No es la primera vez que se comenta, recordad las declaraciones de Airbus hace unos meses: Alemania quiere que EEUU permita al Eurofighter usar bombas nucleares -de factura yanqui-, al igual que actualmente realizan ese rol algunos de sus Tornados. Además, eso apoyaría la posible adquisición de más EFAs para sustituir parte de los Tornados.

Germany presses U.S. on potential Eurofighter nuclear role
June 20, 2018

Germany is pressing Washington to clarify whether it would let the Eurofighter Typhoon carry nuclear bombs as part of shared Western defences, an issue that could help decide whether Berlin orders more of the jets, sources familiar with the matter said.
Although not a nuclear power, Germany hosts some U.S. nuclear warheads under NATO’s nuclear-sharing policy and operates a number of Tornado warplanes that can deliver them. New jets will need to be certified by Washington to carry out nuclear missions, a process which can take years.
...
Airbus has said it is confident Eurofighter could be certified by 2025. Sources familiar with the Eurofighter said it was possible to reconfigure the European jet to carry nuclear bombs.
But U.S. government sources say that schedule is ambitious given that the F-35 and other aircraft must be certified first. Washington has suggested it could take 7-10 years to certify the Eurofighter for nuclear missions, well beyond the Tornado’s retirement date, according to one German military source.
...
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germa ... KKBN1JG1K1

Y selecciones de la revista Combat Aircraft de abril de 2018: https://www.eurofighter.com/files/magaz ... il2018.pdf
Empezando por selecciones sobre España:

In broad terms, P1Eb added the Paveway IV precision-guided bomb for the UK, GBU-48 for the Luftwaffe and EGBU-16 for Italy and Spain [lo considero un fallo de denominación, EGBU-16 y GBU-48 son lo mismo]
...
Concerned by a lack of growth potential within the wider Eurofighter program when it comes to its 19 initial Tranche 1 airframes, the Spanish Air Force opted out of the core plan for the Tranche 1s and instead elected to develop its own OFP 01 and OFP 02 upgrades...
Spain’s 34 Tranche 2 and 20 Tranche 3A aircraft are set to remain within the international development program. The Spanish P2Eb upgrade adds MBDA Meteor, FLIR improvements [¿Pirate o Litening?], T2R radar software, the Drop 4 software package and HMI improvement for the Litening III pod.

Future P3E and P4E upgrade cycles will see Spain adding DASS enhancements, integration of the AIM-120C-7 [que integramos en nuestros T1 con el OFP-02E] and Small Diameter Bomb II, and enhanced IFF modes. [¿España le pone SDB II?]

AIRBUS delivered an initial pair of Eurofighter completed to P1Eb FW (Phase 1 Enhanced Further Work) standard to Albacete air base in December 2017. There the first two new-build aircraft in P1Eb FW configuration were handed over to the Ejército del Aire. The aircraft... include increased integration of a variety of air-to-surface weapons and enhanced targeting, among other improvements. Airbus describes the P1Eb FW configuration as, ‘a key step in the overall Eurofighter evolution plan.’ The remaining six aircraft out of the 73 total jets contracted by Spain will be delivered to the same P1Eb FW standard this year and next.

Remarkably, Typhoons continue to roll off all four partner nations’ final assembly lines, although Getafe in Spain is in the final throes with just six Eurofighters still to be produced for the Spanish Air Force by 2019. Even if new sales materialize, a rationalization of final assembly must be close, even if recent successes are joined by campaign wins in Belgium, Canada, Finland and Poland.

By 2021, the Spanish Air Force plans to have two complete wings equipped with the Eurofighter. Alongside 111, 112 and 113 Escuadróns at Morón, Ala 14 at Albacete should be fully equipped with two full squadrons — 141 and 142 Escuadróns.

Eurofighters are built in three tranches, or batches.
- Tranche 1 consisted of 148 aircraft: 33 for Germany, 28 for Italy, 19 for Spain and 53 for the UK, plus 15 for Austria.

- Tranche 2 initially covered 236 aircraft. However, with the UK securing the Royal Saudi Air Force as the second export customer under Project Salam, the figures were adjusted. The UK, which brokered the 72-aircraft Saudi order, diverted 24 jets to supply an initial batch to the RSAF, and an additional 48 aircraft were added to the tranche. The 24 diverted aircraft should have been added to the back end of Tranche 2
production for the UK but were not, instead being added to Tranche 3 and counted by the UK as part of its overall commitment. In the event, Tranche 2 took in 299 aircraft: 79 for Germany, 47 for Italy, 34 for Spain and 67 for the UK, plus the 72 for Saudi Arabia, all of which were assembled in the UK and have been delivered.

- The partner nations eventually agreed to split Tranche 3 into two parts, 3A and 3B. Tranche 3A was signed on July 31, 2009, and was for just 112 aircraft at an estimated €9 billion. This divided up as 31 for Germany, 21 for Italy, 20 for Spain and 40 for the UK. Tranche 3B has never been signed. The UK’s 40 Typhoons in Tranche 3A comprise 16 extra aircraft, plus the 24 diverted to the RSAF from Tranche 2. This effectively takes the RAF allocation to a total of 160 aircraft: 53 Tranche 1, 67 Tranche 2 and 40 Tranche 3A. Export orders for Oman (12 aircraft), Kuwait (28) and Qatar (24) take overall production to 623 aircraft.

DEBUNKING THE TRANCHE 1 MYTH

Project ‘Gordian’, or CP193, was the RAF’s thrust to bring a swing-role capability to its Tranche 1 aircraft, adding an ‘austere’ integration of the Litening targeting pod that enabled the aircraft to self-designate its own Enhanced Paveway II (EPW2) laser/GPS-guided bombs. This multi-role capability was declared to great acclaim with an operational employment date of July 1, 2008. It provided the Typhoon with a useful precision strike capability that was added to the UK’s Block 5-standard jets.
The last two years have seen a dramatic change in fortunes for the Tranche 1s. The RAF had originally planned to retire them as an economy measure; indeed, 16 two-seaters are to be reduced to spares by the end of 2018, although there are also reports that another nation has shown interest in purchasing these jets.

Although the Typhoon has a 6,000-flying hour life, which may be extended, and although the Tranche 1 aircraft only entered full operational service in 2005 (after the 18-month ‘Case White’ introduction-to-service period at Warton), it was said that those aircraft built in the first production tranche would face insurmountable supportability and obsolescence issues, and that they could not be economically upgraded to Tranche 2 standard. The Tranche 1s did use different processors, requiring a different avionics architecture, and had a different front bulkhead, which mitigated against the later retrofit of an AESA radar, for example. But many seasoned program insiders found this claim puzzling, not least since Eurofighter GmbH once offered to upgrade a number of Austrian Tranche 1 aircraft to Tranche 2 standard at the company’s own expense — an indication that such an upgrade would not be prohibitively expensive. This received rather less press coverage than Austria’s more recent decision to retire its Tranche 1 aircraft prematurely, some time between 2020-23. Austria’s defense minister Hans Peter Doskozil justfied the decision by saying that the aircraft lacked the full capabilities needed for Austria’s sovereign air surveillance mission, conveniently omitting the fact that any lack of capability was a result of short-sighted attempts to shave cost from the program, which included omitting the Pirate, elements of the DASS and integration of the AMRAAM.
But the standard Tranche 1 Typhoon remains one of the most capable and most effective air defense aircraft in service today, and with proper support arrangements in place, operators are finding costs to be reasonable.

Under the new TyTAN (Typhoon Total Availability Enterprise) initiative, BAE Systems has committed itself to a goal of achieving a per-hour operating cost equivalent to that of a (single-engine) F-16. Brig Karl Gruber, the commander of the Austrian Air Force, backed up his minister, saying that he feared that there would be no uniform Tranche 1 system in the future and implying that support for the aircraft would become problematic. This is extremely misleading, since the UK RAF has committed to keeping the Tranche 1 aircraft in service until 2030-35, thereby ensuring that the type will be fully supported for another 12-17 years.

The RAF’s Tranche 1 aircraft have been proving their usefulness in recent times, beginning with the type’s use over Libya in 2011. In September 2015, Tranche 1s took over the rotational deployment to the Falkland Islands, after six years of using Tranche 2 Typhoons. More recently, Tranche 1 aircraft were selected for Operation ‘Biloxi’, the RAF’s deployment to Romania for a NATO Enhanced Air Policing commitment.
...
RAF KEEPS TRANCHE 1 JETS RELEVANT

Original plans for the RAF involved purchasing 232 Typhoons to equip seven operational squadrons, giving a frontline inventory of 137 available fighters. Despite having cut back on its Tranche 3 commitment by only ordering 40 aircraft in this batch, the RAF is now expected to operate these alongside 67 Tranche 2 and ‘around 30’ original Tranche 1 Typhoons —an overall fleet of 137 jets.
Speaking at the Royal International Air Tattoo at RAF Fairford in July 2017, RAF Typhoon force commander Air Commodore Ian Duguid said preparations were on track to increase the UK Typhoon force to seven front-line squadrons from the current five. Until the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) of 2015, the RAF said it would retire its 53 Tranche 1 examples by 2020 and operate just 67 Tranche 2 and 40 Tranche 3 aircraft. The post-SDSR vision is to employ the Tranche 1s to enable the establishment of the two additional units, which are likely to be directed toward air defense as well as having a limited aggressor role. This will enable the service to free up the more advanced Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoons for higher-end, multi-role, expeditionary operations, with the two Tranche 1 units being likely to shoulder more of the burden of the quick reaction alert (QRA) mission.

‘We are in the middle of strategic fleet management in terms of the rebalance,’ continued Duguid. ‘Up until 2015, the plan was to take out of service the Tranche 1 aircraft and effectively replace them with the Tranche 3 aircraft. We now plan to keep the Tranche 1s in service until 2035.’ He explained that while the airframes of these initial RAF Eurofighters aren’t that old, the RAF has been reviewing which essential items it will need in order to keep them in service. Elements such as the Meteor are currently not planned to be incorporated onto the Tranche 1s; therefore, they are likely to retain the existing AIM-120 AMRAAM in the short term. Duguid said, ‘Because the Meteor contract was set on the premise that the Tranche 1s would be taken out of service, at the moment that missile is not planned to be equipped onto the Tranche 1 aircraft.’ He added that, under the current review of the Tranche 1s, the RAF is evaluating what to do regarding the future beyond visual range missile capability as well as obsolescence and mandatory requirements that must be addressed to retain these Typhoons.

DROPS

A versatile project led by BAE Systems reacted to RAF requirements to ‘dropin’ enhancements in response to operational demands, under a project that the partners and export customers can opt in or out of. The ‘Drop’ program was developed for Tranche 1 jets by BAE’s capability sustainment team.
Drop 1 introduced a package of HMI (human-machine interface) improvements, as well as Link 16 MIDS and Litening targeting pod enhancements. The RAF deployment to Gioia del Colle for Operation ‘Ellamy’ attracted the interest of Italian Eurofighter crews, who pressured their leadership into joining the subsequent Drop 2 activity, along with Germany.
Drop 2 dates back to 2012 and was primarily focused on enhancing situational awareness in the air-to-air role, improving attack and identification, as well as refinements to the defensive aids sub-system (DASS).
All four core partner nations bought into Drop 3, which added further MIDS, DASS and radar improvements, and the project continues today with successive refinements.

TYTAN EFFORT

Last summer the RAF marked the first anniversary of the start of its Typhoon Total Availability Enterprise (TyTAN). This complete package of servicing and availability support, in collaboration with BAE Systems, will yield operational cost savings of nearly £550 million over its 10-year lifespan. These savings are then being ‘recycled’ into capability developments for the aircraft.
TyTAN has seen some fundamental changes in the way RAF Typhoons are serviced, both in terms of rectifications and the periodicity of deep maintenance. With so much experience of working on the jet, service intervals have been extended, with an ambition to increase them to 750 flight hours between major inspections. BAE Systems says that the Typhoon’s cost per flight hour is now comparable to that of an F-16, and is expected to come down further. The cost reductions will likely help support the UK’s national Fury programs, which provide rapid capability enhancements outside the core Eurofighter structure.

The Chief of the Air Sta, Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sir Stephen Hillier, said, ‘In the RAF today we are working hard with our industrial partners to enhance our capability whilst improving efficiency and driving down costs. The TyTAN has generated cost savings of 40 per cent.’ Hillier added that these will equate to a saving across the Typhoon fleet of ‘half a billion pounds over the 10-year lifespan [of the contract].’

The UK offer to Belgium is understood to include the full Project ‘Centurion’ weapons set and full integration into the TyTAN support model for the most efficient cost per flying hour. The aircraft on offer is understood to be a snapshot of what the RAF expects to be flying in 2023 — probably a P4E vision with the E-Scan radar, Striker II helmet, SPEAR 3 and the full UK weapons set: Meteor, ASRAAM, Storm Shadow, Brimstone and Paveway IV.

Como dije, eso eran selecciones de la revista Combat Aircraft de abril de 2018: https://www.eurofighter.com/files/magaz ... il2018.pdf
Un saludo

[Orel]

El compi EIJL nos comenta (aún no lo he confirmado en otra fuente) que hoy mismo Alemania anuncia que va a por 90 EFA T3 con Captor-E versión R2 para sustituir al Tornado, más 33 opciones para sustituir además sus EFA T1. Van a pedir modificaciones al DASS para sustituir sus Tornados ECR.

Sobre versiones del AESA aún no codificadas "oficialmente", recordad que citan una versión EIS -inicial- llamada 1, luego la 1+ para exportación, luego esta 2 que sería la plena para los socios, y luego la 3 posible para RU con modos jamming.

[Roberto]

nuestro pobre general del SEJEMA y mas de un alto cargo del Eda y por descontado de nuestra armada...esta noche no duerme ....escalofrios me da

[Orel]

El CEO de Dassault dijo ayer: "Soy como Trump, pero de aquí: Europa para los europeos. Los estadounidenses son poderosos, apoyan su industria. Nos gustaría que los europeos hiciesen lo mismo."
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/libre-en ... 968892a299

Para la autonomía y el desarrollo I+D+i e industrial es vital "hacer aquí".

Y mi opinión ya la conocéis: tal vez excepto por Don Dinero, para nosotros no es excluyente F-35 y FCAS.