Moderadores: Lepanto, poliorcetes, Edu, Orel
El único interes de comprar esos aviones, sería por piezas de la célula,
Bilbo escribió:Fuentes de SVT: Double American en la cima cuando Finlandia eligió un nuevo avión de combate
El Gripen de Saab solo terminó en tercer lugar cuando Finlandia clasificó qué avión de combate era mejor para ellos. Los aviones de combate estadounidenses Lockheed Martin y Boeing recibieron mejores calificaciones que el Gripen sueco, según dicen las fuentes a SVT.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kall ... stridsflyg
Bilbo escribió:Fuentes de SVT: Double American en la cima cuando Finlandia eligió un nuevo avión de combate
El Gripen de Saab solo terminó en tercer lugar cuando Finlandia clasificó qué avión de combate era mejor para ellos. Los aviones de combate estadounidenses Lockheed Martin y Boeing recibieron mejores calificaciones que el Gripen sueco, según dicen las fuentes a SVT.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kall ... stridsflyg
“Misunderstanding” - The leader of the fighter project knocks out Saab’s suspicions
ARNO RYDMAN | 13.12.2021 | 15:24- updated 13.12.2021 | 18:28
According to Lauri Puranen, all candidates have been evaluated on exactly the same basis.
Lauri Puranen, program director of the HX project, dispels the doubts expressed by Saab about the unevenness of the fighter project. Puranen relies on the confirmation of Deloitte Oy, which acted as an external quality assurance.
- Deloitte has also reviewed the results of our evaluation report very carefully. We will release a public version of the report this week. It does not find any basis for this allegation that any candidate was treated differently. All candidates have been evaluated on exactly the same basis, Puranen tells Online News .
Anders Gardberg, Saab's country manager for Finland, told Online News last Friday that the Finnish government's decision to choose Lockheed Martin's F-35 fighters in the United States to be the successor to the Hornets was confusing and surprising.
According to Gardberg, it is appropriate to ask whether all the candidates in the tender for the HX project have been evaluated on the same basis. He refers to the F-35's public information about high and rising operating costs and the weapons package on offer. Gardberg pays attention to the project process and compliance.
In addition to the F-35, there were four multi-purpose fighters on offer: the US Boeing F / A Super Hornet, the French Dassault Rafale, the Swedish Saab Gripen and the pan-European Eurofighter Typhoon. The last three tops consisted of the F-35, Gripen and Super Hornet. The victory was taken by the F-35.
Puranen says that the HX project has been taken forward transparently and fairly from the beginning.
- We have hired an external quality assurance who will not sing our songs. In fact, the opposite is true, and we have sung their guidance and followed their feedback closely if there has been room for improvement in the process, he says.
There has been a lot of public debate about the life-cycle costs of the F-35. In the United States, the matter has been raised by the country's inspection agency, GAO.
Puranen emphasizes that there are uncertainties regarding operating costs for all candidates
- Now we are talking about the operating environment of the 2030s, ie things that will happen in about ten years.
- Uncertainties have been taken into account for all candidates. The National Audit Office (VTV) has also followed our calculations, and the Ministry of Finance has also reviewed the calculations separately before the presentation and found them to be credible, Puranen says.
He emphasizes that officials act with official responsibility when matters are presented to the Government.
- We can't take the wrong information there. It is based on factual information. But as we have pointed out, these involve uncertainties. We do not know, for example, fuel prices (in the future).
- It must be remembered that all the candidates have been involved in this for seven years and there are certainly disappointments and they are distributed differently.
The necessary weapons will be procured
According to Saab's Anders Gardberg, the F-35's weapons package also caused confusion. AMRAAM and Sidewinder anti-aircraft missiles will be procured for the F-35. Among other things, more air-to-ground missiles will be procured later.
Gardberg does not swallow the argument that other missiles could be procured separately at a later date. According to him, throughout the project, the emphasis on Saab was to procure the entire weapons package at once and to start the final performance comparison with the weapons package on offer. The Saab package included both long-range and short-range anti-aircraft missiles and air-to-ground missiles.
Puranen reminds that not all weapons are acquired immediately.
- As for weapons, Gardberg has a misunderstanding. Now, at this point, we proposed to the Government that we acquire air-to-air weapons, Puranen says.
- We have ten years to acquire weapons. The premise is that we acquire all the necessary weapons.
Puranen emphasizes that the evaluation of the weapons package has been based on the weapons load offered by the candidates.
- In other words, all candidates have been treated equally. The evaluation has been based purely on the weapons they have offered in their final bids. That is the result.
- We're getting air-to-ground missiles. Now that we have about ten years to go before the final operational performance is achieved, we can see if we can still improve these weapons packages on offer and acquire more modern weapons, Puranen says.
According to him, the acquisition of air-to-ground weapons is about to begin, but it was not appropriate to acquire them now.
- Gardberg has a misunderstanding here, says Puranen.
- All offers were evaluated with the weapons they offered. We set scenarios that certain types of air warfare situations and threats should be addressed. They were asked how they would solve them and they offered that weapon package.
jupiter escribió:Bilbo escribió:Fuentes de SVT: Double American en la cima cuando Finlandia eligió un nuevo avión de combate
El Gripen de Saab solo terminó en tercer lugar cuando Finlandia clasificó qué avión de combate era mejor para ellos. Los aviones de combate estadounidenses Lockheed Martin y Boeing recibieron mejores calificaciones que el Gripen sueco, según dicen las fuentes a SVT.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kall ... stridsflyg
Resultado bastante lógico. El Grippen es un quiero y no puedo, y finalmente solo lo compran los que no pueden comprar otra cosa.
Resultado bastante lógico. El Grippen es un quiero y no puedo, y finalmente solo lo compran los que no pueden comprar otra cosa.
Es que el nuevo Gripen E tampoco es barato, vienes para competir con F-16s y acabas compitiendo con aviones bimotores con mucho mayor rango de combate y carga a precios similares.
bandua escribió:El gripen si no es por precio no lo compra nadie. Es apañadete pero casi un lift. Cualquier teen te da más creo yo.
Es que el nuevo Gripen E tampoco es barato, vienes para competir con F-16s y acabas compitiendo con aviones bimotores con mucho mayor rango de combate y carga a precios similares.
Y no se ha fabricado en tanta cantidad (el NG) como ocurrió con el C/D,que salieron más de 200. Eso también cuenta.
Y es un avion tremendamente sensato.
Orel escribió:Por cierto, a lo de la posibilidad de comprar F-35, ésa siempre está, pero me extrañaría porque a poca autonomía que Suecia tuviese con el Tempest, sería mayor que con F-35 y es algo que siempre buscan... mientras mantengan "neutralidad", claro, que si acaban entrando en la OTAN el F-35 creo que tendría cancha abierta.
Saludos
Orel escribió:Por cierto, a lo de la posibilidad [de Suecia] de comprar F-35, ésa siempre está, pero me extrañaría porque a poca autonomía que Suecia tuviese con el Tempest, sería mayor que con F-35 y es algo que siempre buscan... mientras mantengan "neutralidad", claro, que si acaban entrando en la OTAN el F-35 creo que tendría cancha abierta.
Saludos
jupiter escribió:Orel escribió:Por cierto, a lo de la posibilidad de comprar F-35, ésa siempre está, pero me extrañaría porque a poca autonomía que Suecia tuviese con el Tempest, sería mayor que con F-35 y es algo que siempre buscan... mientras mantengan "neutralidad", claro, que si acaban entrando en la OTAN el F-35 creo que tendría cancha abierta.
Saludos
Lo de comprar F 35, sinceramente no lo veo, Sería admitir que el Grippen es un cagarro y ya se encargarán los intereses industriales de que eso no ocurra.
En cuanto a la independencia, conviene no olvidar que la mayor parte del Grippen se fabrica fuera de Suecia, el mayor porcentaje en USA, por lo que independiente, lo que se dice independiente, USA, China y Rusia.
Incluso el Rafale lleva componentes USA.
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