Dassault Rafale

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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Jordi el Sab Ago 28, 2010 11:24 pm

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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Dom Ago 29, 2010 7:13 pm

Sobre el radar de sus F-16 (AN/APG-80) solo sus F-16 lo llevan ni en USA lo llevan, o sea és una condición solamente de la FA de los EAU

Por supuesto, Jordi. Y no sólo sucede con su "exclusivo" Block 60, también con su Mirage 2000-9, antecedente francés directo al que le ocurrió lo mismo que al Viper o le sucederí­a al Rafale: pidieron un caza tan evolucionado que al final resulta un estándar diferente del de todos los demás, siendo el modelo más capaz de 2000 y siendo únicos usuarios.

El radar RBE2 esta en desarrollo hace tiempo. Se decidió que el radar recibirí­a una antena de escaneo pasivo, en vez de la exploración electromecánica empleada por el radar Captor del Typhon, utiliza una antena AESA.

Esta frase es liosa. EL RBE2 original es PESA, y es el que llevarán todos los Rafale F3, estándar al que se están pasando los F2 y F1. Y digo "llevarán todos" en futuro porque los F3 aún se están entregando. Los 60 F3 "road map" o Tranche 4 llegarán a partir de 2012 (más o menos) y serán los primeros con AESA. La duda puede surgir porque han mantenido el mismo nombre para el radar: RBE2. Por eso me gusta aclarar RBE2 PESA y RBE2 AESA.

El Captor ECR-90 del EFA usa antena de barrido mecánico. A partir de 2015, tendrá AESA operativo.

Según fuentes del Ministerio de la defensa nacional francés (MoD), el radar RBE2 tiene un alcance de aproximadamente...

De hecho, lo único cierto y que nadie niega, pues los alcances concretos son clasificados, es que el alcance del Captor es mucho mayor que el del actual RBE2 PESA. Y seguirá siendo mayor que el del futuro RBE2 AESA. De entrada, el EFA tiene mayor capacidad de generación eléctrica (y mayor remanente para crecimiento futuro) y la antena del Captor tiene 15 cm más de diámetro.
Igualmente el Pirate tiene un alcance operativo mucho mayor que el OSF y el OSF-IT. Amén de que el "futuro" OSF-IT no será útil de noche ni con algo de mal tiempo, como sí­ el Pirate.

Gracias por la info, Champi.

Del compañero Emile Zola en el FMG, sobre los cambios que los EAU exiogen para el RBE2 AESA de sus potenciales Rafale:
Los otros cambios requeridos por parte de los EAU (en radar, motores y visor IRST) no interesan a la FA francesa (salvo mayor alcance para el RBE2), son caros y tomarán unos 4 años de desarrollar (nota: el motor 4, el radar más de 4). Tengo un amigo que es ingeniero en la empresa Thalí¨s y que me explicó que el problema con las negociacioneses que presionan para beneficiar de todo lo que piden, ellos solos y no quieren pagar más de 30% de los desarrollos vinculados. De hecho querrí­an pagar sus aparatos al mismo precio que si fuesen los mismos que los nuestros (con motores de 75KN de empuje), lo que es inaceptable.

Así­ que con clientes de tal trato vengo a considerar que no resultará interesante lograr la firma de la venta que conllevarí­a probablemente perdida financial bajo pretexto de satisfacer el orgullo de poder decir "hemos vendido unos 50/60 Rafale".
Opino que mejor será dejarles volverse hacia el consortio EuroFighter para intentar su timada, o quedarse con los productos del tio Sam (que esta vez no intentarán engaitar, ya que no se permitan el mismo trato para con una una verdadera gran-potencia)

Como le dije, lo de "timada" para Eurofighter no era así­, porque este caza ya cuenta con motores de 90 kN, con IRST de doble ví­a IR, con visor de casco, con DASS mejorado, y tiene firmado el AESA (más avanzado y capaz que el del Rafale), estando la T3A lista para recibirlo fí­sica, eléctrica y refrigerativamente hablando. Y ofrece CFT como el Rafale pero también TVC como no el francés.
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor champi el Lun Sep 13, 2010 4:44 pm

Orel escribió:Creen que no están lejos de conseguir un acuerdo con los EAU

Puede que estén más lejos de lo que se nos hace ver. Los EAU acaban de pedir información sobre el F/A-18E/F: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =FEA&s=CVS
By PIERRE TRAN
Published: 13 September 2010

PARIS - The United Arab Emirates (UAE) has requested technical information on the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, a surprise move that turns an anticipated order of Dassault Rafales into a $10 billion competition, an Arabian Gulf defense source said.

"The UAE is asking the U.S. for information on the F/A-18 Super Hornet in the single- and twin-seater version," the source said. "It is in the very early stages; it's a preliminary contact. The UAE has opened the door to them."

UAE authorities approached Boeing about a month ago and were directed to the U.S. government, which is expected to respond in a month or so, a U.S. source said.

It's not clear why Abu Dhabi has suddenly expressed interest in the latest version of the U.S. strike fighter. Technology may be part of the reason, but politics is likely the main cause.

But the news will come as a severe upset to the French government and industry, which had confidently expected to secure a sale of the Dassault jet without competition.

"This is worth about $10 billion, depending on the delivery dates` and specification," the Gulf source said.

The deal means even more to the French administration, which has invested much political capital and effort in pitching the jet to the Gulf state.

Rafale is the standard-bearer for French aerospace industry, showcasing Dassault's competence as a designer and builder of cutting-edge fighters, Safran's engines and Thales' radar, electric warfare and avionics. A host of subcontractors depend on the jet, while MBDA hopes a UAE purchase will lead to exports of the Meteor and other missiles.
...
Calls to the French president's office were not returned by press time.
Why The Shift?

It was not immediately clear why the UAE is exploring a U.S.-made option.

The U.S. source said the Gulf state is believed to be frustrated over price and the technology offered by France.

UAE authorities have been negotiating with the French government and industry a potential co-development of a more capable "fifth-generation" model of the Rafale.

Abu Dhabi is being asked to pay to upgrade the Rafale, while the F-18 is already at the desired technological level.

The Gulf source said, "The Super Hornet has everything we need. We don't need to co-develop or modify it."

Upgrades under discussion include a longer-range active electronically scanned radar, a more capable Spectra electronic warfare suite and a M88 engine that gives 9 tons of thrust, 1.5 tons more than the ones in the French Air Force's Rafales.

French Defense Minister Hervé Morin has said developing the upgrades would cost UAE around 2 billion euros ($2.6 billion). France itself would also bear some of the cost.
...
Political Winds?

But the Gulf source said technology was not the reason for the sudden shift.

"This is not about the specifications," the source said.The sale of combat aircraft is a political act

Perhaps a political shift is behind it. Dassault Executive Chairman Charles Edelstenne has underscored the role of politics in fighter sales.

"The sale of combat aircraft is a political act. All we can do is to make the best plane possible," Edelstenne said in March. "The Elysées [presidential office] does a superb job. In May 2007, we had zero prospects. Today, we have a significant number."
...
The F-18 is a competitor in the Brazilian and Indian races. Boeing withdrew from the now-delayed Swiss tender, but could re-enter when the competition is relaunched.
...
Defense College, Rome.
Relations Appeared Sound

The inauguration of the French military base sent a strong signal of political support. Sarkozy's tough position on Iran's nuclear program was a sign that bilateral ties were running on a normal course.

"Abu Dhabi is a good friend," Razoux said.
...
But the Rafale is also the second European weapons deal in recent months to founder in the UAE. Last month, Finmeccanica was unable to deliver UAV technology, which had been agreed as part of a sale of 48 M346 jet trainers, leading the UAE to reopen talks to acquire the T-50 aircraft from South Korea.

Parece (rumores) que para EAU el F/A-18E/F es superior técnicamente, y tiene todo lo que ellos quieren. Lo cierto, es que polí­ticamente Francia apostó muy fuerte por este paí­s, y serí­a un gran varapalo si no consiguesen una venta...
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Mié Sep 15, 2010 3:14 am

De Emile Zola en el FMG:
Una pequeña información : a partir de la primavera 2011 los Rafale en Afganistán contarán con un nuevo pod de reconocimiento (el pod "Reco NG") beneficiando de una transmisión muy rápida de datos numericos : ofrece mucho más prestaciones que el "bueno de viejo" pod ATLIS empleado por los Mirage2000D o los Super Etandard.
Y acerca de municiones van a operar con la variante de guiaje GPS+IR de la bomba-misil AASM (otorgando precisión métrica), sabiendo de paso que la variante de guiaje GPS+Laser será operativa a partir de 2012.
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor champi el Dom Sep 19, 2010 12:43 pm

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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Dom Sep 19, 2010 10:37 pm

De Fusilier en RevistaEjercitos:
La última noticia es que el Rafale M34 llegará a la Marine Nationale con la antena AESA a principios del 2012 y que ese mismo año llegarán dos aparatos con AESA a l'AdA. Estos deben de los últimos aparatos de la tranche 3. Los de la tranche 4 serán todos con AESA; y suponemos (digo suponemos) que el retrofit de los F1 M sera con AESA.

Para despistados :wink: : Con los F1 M no se refiere a Mirage modernizados, si no a los 10 primeros Rafale F1 de la Marine (versión M) que están preservados a la espera de actualizarlos a un estándar posterior.
Ya se puso algo en este tema en Mayo:
""Los 10 Rafale F1 iniciales de la Marine están actualmente almacenados y su conversión a F3 no comenzará hasta la primavera de 2013. Las entregas serán desde principios de 2014 hasta otoño de 2016. No recibirán OSF ni OSF-IT.""


Un saludo
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor champi el Mié Sep 29, 2010 4:28 pm

Francia necesita encontar €800 millones para mantener la cadencia mí­nima de producción del Rafale (11 unidades) durante los próximos 3 años. Se especula con que pueda rascar de la MLU del M2000-D, del MRTT y/o de elementos de la modernización del Scorpion: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=TOP
By Pierre Tran
Published: 28 Sep 2010 21:50
...
The military budget law set 16.04 billion euros for 2011, 16.41 billion in 2012 and 17.02 billion in 2013.

Equipment spending hit a record 18 billion euros in 2009 under a bow wave effect as equipment which had been under development for years finally hit the production and delivery stage. That total eased to 17 billion in the current year.

The defense officials drafting the military budget law factored in export contracts for the Rafale fighter jet from Dassault Aviation, but as no such deals have been signed, the government must find 800 million euros over the three-year period to buy the aircraft needed to maintain production at an annual 11 units.

The Defense Ministry confirmed that part of the savings will come from postponing the midlife upgrade and conversion of the Mirage 2000-D fighter-bomber to an air defense variant, an order for 14 multirole tanker and transport aircraft (MRTT), and elements of the Scorpion Army modernization program.

An order for the MRTT will come back for review in 2012 or 2013. French officials are negotiating with their British counterparts for a possible lease of the tanker jets being acquired under the future strategic tanker aircraft program for the Royal Air Force. But the lease terms being offered are too expensive, a French official said. If a cooperative deal is reached, it would be announced at the Anglo-French summit to be held in November.

The government published on Sept. 29 the defense spending figures which will go to the National Assembly in the autumn for voting.
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Mié Sep 29, 2010 5:44 pm

Francia necesita encontar €800 millones para mantener la cadencia mí­nima de producción del Rafale (11 unidades) durante los próximos 3 años.

Confirma lo que ya habí­amos puesto aquí­ (sacado de aquellos artí­culos franceses).
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Jue Oct 07, 2010 3:06 pm

¿Recordáis los escaneos de la revista DSI que puso Champi en Mayo de 2010, sobre el ejercicio ATLC en Dubai del año pasado?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1205&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=585

Pues gracias a Mauricio, del FMG (Foro Militar General), de la revista AFM (Air Forces Monthly) sobre los mismos:

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/65/scan0001nq.jpg
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6632/scan0002ln.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8326/scan0003pj.jpg
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5531/scan0004r.jpg
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5895/afm010001.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9922/afm010002.jpg

Dicen cosas muy parecidas (misma fuente Grandclaudon) pero las revisaré a fondo a ver si se rasca algo más...
Editado: una perla sobre las supuestas palizas de Rafales a Tifones de la entrevista al Col. Grandclaudon:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/5531/scan0004r.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9922/afm010002.jpg
"I should not have given the results, because we were only training assets for RAF pilots, still growing on the Typhoon, but I was so proud..."

Un saludo
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor champi el Jue Oct 07, 2010 6:19 pm

Gracias Orel.
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Vie Oct 15, 2010 11:03 pm

French Fighter Heads For Combat

Oct 11, 2010

By Michael A. Taverna, Robert Wall

French air force and navy Rafale F3s are heading for the Indian Ocean region and Afghanistan this month as they prepare to field a full panoply of strike and reconnaissance gear for the first time.

Prior rotations of the Dassault combat aircraft were limited because key equipment was not yet in hand. Those limitations are now starting to be rectified, although some shortfalls remain.

Four air force Rafales, including two equipped with the new Reco NG reconnaissance pod, will take part in an Air Wafare Center exercise in the United Arab Emirates, scheduled for this month, senior officers said on Oct. 6 at the standup of the third Rafale squadron at St. Dizier in eastern France. And on Oct. 16, the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle will depart for the Horn of Africa, where its new fleet of 10 Rafale F3s, some also fitted with Reco NGs, will help support the European Union's Atalanta anti-piracy mission (Nota: el CdG tuvo que regresar a puerto 1 dí­a después de su despliegue al Ándico).

The Reco NG, developed by Thales, can supply digital imagery for low-, medium- and high-altitude and strategic reconnaissance, permitting it to detect targets over a wide swath and identify them with centimetric resolution without pilot intervention. The two sorties will be the first outside France for the new pod, which is in the final stages of joint air force/navy qualification. Because the first naval Reco NGs will not arrive until next year, all the pods will be air force models, which lack the extra reinforcements needed for carrier duty. This means carrier-borne pods will operate somewhat below their maximum design capability, says Capt. Sebastien Fabre, the navy's Rafale program officer.

In addition to the Reco NG, the air force Rafales will also carry new Damocles MP targeting pods, Rover ground-air data links, near-real-time ground situation displays and 30-mm. cannon fully qualified for the ground role. Naval aircraft will not be equipped with Damocles because of delays in training crews in its use, Fabre says. Targeting will instead be done by Dassault Super Etendards, using Damocles M pods that have been in use since 2004.

Once the Charles de Gaulle has completed its Horn of Africa stint, it will take up station in the Arabian Sea in support of U.S. missions on the Arabian peninsula and the NATO task force in Afghanistan. The French also will provide three air force Rafale F3s next spring, alongside a complement of three Dassault Mirage 2000 fighters, for its combat aircraft contingent at Kandahar, Afghanistan.

The heavy deployment schedule—which forced France to scrap its planned involvement with Rafale in NATO's annual Tiger Meet now taking place in the Netherlands—underscores the country's eagerness to demonstrate the new Rafale F3 capabilities. However, planners acknowledge that the aircraft is still not fully optimized to counter evolving threats, particularly in Afghanistan. NATO officials are now more interested in systems that can provide greater endurance rather than classic tactical reconnaissance, for example, a shift that prompted a German decision to withdraw recce-pod-equipped Panavia Tornados from Afghanistan next month.

The French armaments agency is studying the acquisition of new hardware to meet these changing field conditions. One requirement concerns a strike capability intermediate between 30-mm. cannon and 250-kg. (550-lb.) laser-guided bombs, for which a solution is expected to emerge early next year (AW&ST July 19, p. 76). Engineers are also still grappling with the Rafale's inability to independently determine the precise geolocation of targets for suppression with the AASM standoff weapon, admits a senior French air force officer. A remedy—which would improve the acuity of the Spectra electronic warfare system so it can detect a target and cue the pod—is underway. Fielding that feature, however, will take several years.

In addition to permitting coalition forces to benefit from the Rafale F3's expanded mission role, the Middle East deployments will serve to highlight the aircraft's capabilities to potential buyers in the region, beginning with the United Arab Emirates, which has long been courted by France as the first export customer for the Dassault product. To reinforce the message, the French will stand up a squadron of Rafales at their new base in Abu Dhabi in November. The squadron will be equipped initially with three Rafales and three Mirage 2000-5s. Next year, the Mirage 2000s will be replaced with Rafales.

The new squadron at St. Dizier, designated 2/92 Aquitaine, will serve to transform ab-initio pilots as well as navigators and crew flying older aircraft for service on Rafale. The unit will ramp up gradually as the number of Rafales grows. The fleet now comprises 38 two-seat and 39 single-seat aircraft, a figure that was due to grow to 39 twins and 44 singles by the end of 2013. However, with the recent decision to defer a planned Mirage 2000D upgrade and no export order yet in hand, ramp-up will be “a bit faster than initially foreseen,”says French Defense Minister Herve Morin.

The 2/92 Aquitaine will train 6-10 ab-initio pilots annually, along with 12-15 pilots transitioning from other types of aircraft and 4-6 navigator/weapon system officers. The squadron will draw on Rafales from two air force combat units already based at St. Dizier and up to four to be supplied by the navy.

A third French-based combat squadron will stand up at the Mont-de-Marsan base in southwestern France next year.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... calreports

Los Rafale de l'AdA actuales F3.2 ya tienen el pod Reco NG y el DAMOCLES. Así­ como el link Rover (intercambio de video tierra-avión), una ¿pantalla o modo? de presentación de datos terrestres casi en tiempo real y el cañón con modos AS integrados.

(¿A qué se refieren con lo de "near-real-time ground situation displays"? ¿A pantallas espcí­ficas o a modos de presentación especí­ficos en las pantallas ya existentes?)

Sin embargo los Rafale M (navales) aún siguen dependiendo de los SEM con pod FLIR/LD.
Y sobre las A2SM, decir que el Rafale no tiene aún capacidad de señalizar por sí­ mismo objetivos para las mismas (al hablar de geolocalización supongo que se refiere a las GPS, las más importantes). Que tener operativa tal capacidad llevará años.

Un saludo
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor champi el Sab Oct 16, 2010 8:20 am

A mi también me llama la atención esto:
The fleet now comprises 38 two-seat and 39 single-seat aircraft, a figure that was due to grow to 39 twins and 44 singles by the end of 2013

Tení­an planeado sólo 6 unidades más en 2 años, pero tendrán que acelerar su compra por falta de exportaciones inmediatas.

Por cierto, se han suspendido las negociaciones entre Francia y UAE por el Rafale: http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/le ... or=RSS-300
Les négociations sont bel et bien « suspendues » avec les Emirats Arabes Unis (EAU), selon une source proche du dossier. Contrairement aux affirmations du ministre de la Défense, Hervé Morin, « les discussions n'ont pas repris depuis la fin du Ramadan », nous indique cette source.
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Sab Oct 16, 2010 3:28 pm

Tení­an planeado sólo 6 unidades más en 2 años, pero tendrán que acelerar su compra por falta de exportaciones inmediatas.

Xactamente.

Por cierto, se han suspendido las negociaciones entre Francia y UAE por el Rafale

Si es verdad, en su MinDef y en Dassault estarán aún más con el agua al cuello.
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor champi el Vie Oct 22, 2010 7:42 pm

El contrato para la integración del Meteor podrí­a estar muy próximo: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest
Posted by Robert Wall at 10/22/2010 3:12 AM CDT
...
Not to be outdone, France is ready to follow. A French defense ministry official notes that a contract to integrate Meteor on Rafale is very close to being awarded.

And the Eurofighter consortium also is pushing its members to get the missile on the Typhoon and is urging a contract be awarded sooner rather than later.

The fielding timelines are roughly similar for the three European combat aircraft. Sweden says the integration with Gripen should be done around 2013, although a government official says the missile itself may not be fielded in Sweden until 2015. That's probably also when Meteor would appear on Rafale. Typhoon could see the missile already in mid-2014, if the integration contract is awarded soon, first using an upgraded version of the Captor-M radar (the AESA radar, also not yet on contract for Typhoon, would follow around 2015 and have the Meteor datalink functionality from day one).

That's all good news for a missile program that has been quietly progressing, even if not without its test failures. Despite some setbacks which industry has kept largely closely held, the development now appears to be heading in the right direction.

Con la versión mejorada del Captor supongo que se refieren a las modificaciones necesarias para operar el Meteor, pero la verdad es que no tengo ni idea...
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Re: Dassault Rafale

Notapor Orel el Sab Oct 23, 2010 3:34 pm

Con la versión mejorada del Captor supongo que se refieren a las modificaciones necesarias para operar el Meteor, pero la verdad es que no tengo ni idea...

Sí­, se refiere a la evolución normal del radar, con nuevo software (nuevo SRP) para poder operar el Meteor. Lo que no entiendo bien es si el "Captor mecánico" no tendrá el data-link del Meteor y se espera hasta tener los AESA, o sí­ se le pondrá.
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