India y su industria aeronáutica

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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Vie Jun 24, 2011 3:06 pm

Orel supongo que aunque los aviones se construyen aqui es de esperar que muchos componentes se sigan fabricando en Europa?

Supongo que con "aquí­" te refieres a "allí­" :wink:
India exige un elevadí­simo grado de externalización y retornos a su paí­s. Lógico, cuando compras casi 130 cazas, con opciones al doble, y además estás en pleno desarrollo como potencia. Pero como beneficios para nosotros algo se fabricará aquí­, aunque sea poco, y habrá royalties, pago de licencias, logí­stica, entrenamiento y financiación para desarrollar esas cosas que podrí­an quedarse en el tintero y que nos vendrí­an de perlas para la futura MLU de nuestros cazas (por lo pronto ya ha ayudado a firmar el AESA, y supondrí­a el desarrollo de TVC y CFT, incluso a lo mejor de una versión naval).
Lo único negativo es que un contrato asi creo que se carga el pedido de T3B en Europa.

¡Todo lo contrario! España y Alemania queremos la T3B, pero no RU ni Italia. La única manera de que pudiéramos obtenerla es, precisamente, firmar un gran contrato en el extranjero, es decir, India, que suponga el aporte económico que perdemos al no querer firmar los pérfidos ni los italianinis. Si gana el Rafale, podemos olvidarnos casi seguro de la T3B, aunque aún así­ desde EADS insisten en que sigue negociándose, conste. Dicen que deberí­an saber algo a finales de este año.

Un saludo
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Jue Jun 30, 2011 11:55 pm

Sobre el concurso indio en el que sólo quedan EFA y Rafale: La evaluación más exigente y completa realizada para ningún otro potencial comprador. 643 parámetros evaluados. Se ha lanzado armamento real (bombas y misiles). Esperan tener el contrato listo antes de primavera de 2012. India ha fijado un 50% de retornos para energizar su industria.
This is a choice made exclusively on the basis of the technical evaluations completed in April 2010 on 643 parameters.
...
The Indian evaluation has been the most rigorous and comprehensive ever done for any tender with live bomb drop and missiles launches, in-country tests and evaluation, including at high altitude and in the desert during hot and humid conditions.
...
With the down-selection made, the full procurement process has started. It was announced by the Indian authorities that their goal is to have it completed before spring 2012. India has fixed a 50 percent offset requirement for the MMRCA deal to ensure that half of the deal's worth is reinvested in India to energise its defence industry.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor poliorcetes el Vie Jul 01, 2011 10:22 am

in the desert during hot and humid conditions?

desert? humid?
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Vie Jul 01, 2011 3:10 pm

Creo que la idea es expresar que los han probado a grandes alturas y en el desierto y en condiciones cálidas y húmedas. Es decir, que lo de cálido y húmedo no irí­a por el desierto. O eso o un error.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Dom Jul 03, 2011 10:39 pm

Embraer entregará a India tres EMB-145 AEW&C el próximo semestre y puede optar a la venta de ocho más

30/06/2011

http://www.infodefensa.com/?noticia=emb ... e-ocho-mas
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor champi el Jue Sep 01, 2011 3:58 pm

Parece que todo el mundo (rusos, norteamericanos y europeos) le toma el pelo a la India con las contraprestaciones industriales: http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... rs/447745/
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi September 01, 2011, 0:04 IST

Whistle-blowers in the ministry of defence (MoD) have briefed Business Standard about the ministry's flagrant violation of rules in almost every recent offset contract. Some of these striking offset irregularities relate to contracts for upgrading the IAF's MiG-29 fighters by RAC MiG of Russia; the purchase of C-17 Globemaster III transport aircraft and P8I Neptune long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft from US giant, Boeing; and the procurement of AW-101 helicopters, from Anglo-Italian company, AgustaWestland, for VVIPs, including the Prime Minister.

MoD officials say rules are being flouted with impunity because of a nexus between global arms vendors and the MoD's Acquisition Wing (which procures arms for the military). Both would like India's arms purchases to proceed unhindered. For the vendors, profits are at stake and the Acquisition Wing must meet procurement targets. Both see the strict implementation of offset rules as an inconvenient hurdle to procurement; for vendors, it also adds to the cost. And, so, the vendors submit token offset proposals and the Acquisition Wing clears those without too many questions.

Offsets were intended to boost the Indian defence industry by requiring vendors, who supply defence equipment worth Rs 300 crore or more, to source 30 per cent of the contract value in defence products from India. But, an examination of recent offset contracts points to violations of both the letter and spirit of offsets. Consider the following:

* Russian company RAC MiG won a $964 million contract to upgrade India's fleet of 69 MiG-29 fighters, incurring an offset liability of $289 million (30 per cent of the contract value). Six MiG-29s were to be upgraded in Russia and the remaining in India, for which MiG charged hefty licence fees in the contract. But MoD officials reveal the Acquisition Wing permitted RAC MiG to also claim the licence fee as an offset.

RAC MiG was also irregularly allowed to claim the cost of training IAF personnel as an offset :b6 . Training costs can now be claimed as offsets, but this was not permitted in the rules under which the contract was signed. Asked for a reaction, the MoD has not responded.

* The Boeing Company signed a $2.1-billion deal to supply eight P8I Neptune LRMR aircraft to the Indian Navy. The MoD decided that ultra-secret electronics — for example, Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system — which differentiates friendly from hostile targets — would be procured from Bharat Electronics Ltd and Electronics Corporation of India Ltd. This was done to keep US components out of these sensitive systems. But the Acquisition Wing then permitted Boeing to claim their cost as an offset, as if it had indigenised them.

Further, Boeing is being allowed to claim the cost of Transfer of Technology (ToT) as a P8I offset even though ToT is ineligible for offsets.

MoD flouts offset rules, favours foreign vendors...

Asked for their response, Boeing replied, “Boeing does not comment on specific offset proposals and we will have to refer you to the MoD on your queries. We continue to engage with our customers on optimal offset solutions that offer India the right technological capability for a strengthened aerospace industry.”The MoD did not respond to a request for comments. * The Boeing Company has also benefited enormously, say MoD officials, from the Acquisition Wing's “sweetheart clearance”of half a billion dollars worth of offsets arising from the IAF's purchase of 10 C-17 Globemaster III transporters for $4.1 billion. The Acquisition Wing has okayed Boeing's proposal to supply the DRDO a “tri-sonic wind tunnel”, which can develop wind speeds of Mach 3.7 (one Mach equals the speed of sound). Indian industry sources point out this is vintage technology, with the US having built a tri-sonic wind tunnel in the 1950s :b9 . Indian company, L&T, has recently built a Mach 12 wind tunnel for the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO).

The Acquisition Wing has also allowed Boeing offset credit for a super-expensive “high-altitude jet engine testing facility”for the DRDO, which has just one engine under development. Having finished high-altitude testing in Russia of its unsuccessful Kaveri engine, the DRDO is now developing a jet engine with French company, Snecma, which already has its own high-altitude testing facilities. But now, after the Acquisition Wing cleared these offsets, the DRDO will get an old toy in new wrapping and Boeing will get offset credit worth dozens of millions of dollars. * Agusta Westland AW-101 VVIP helicopters. This high profile $800 million (Rs 3,700 crore) purchase of twelve AW-101 VVIP helicopters from Agusta Westland has violated multiple provisions of the Defence Procurement Procedure, according to MoD officials. The DPP does not permit the purchase of civilian aircraft, but the PMO pushed the MoD into the purchase, arguing the IAF flies the helicopters. No relaxation was sought under para 75 of the DPP.

The offsets for the VVIP helicopter deal are especially irregular, say MoD officials. They include indirect offsets (i.e. non-defence expenses), and ineligible offsets, such as the expenses of holding project committee meetings. The MoD has ignored a request for comments.

MoD officials say a Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) audit would reveal thousands of crores of rupees have already been lost in offsets that violate the ministry's own rules and guidelines. So far, the CAG has never audited offsets, even though the MoD revealed in 2009 that Rs 8,000 crore worth of offsets had already been finalised. That will rise to Rs 30,000 crore this year, assuming Rs 35,000 crore are spent each year on foreign arms.

Foreign vendors have resisted offsets, ever since they were first imposed in the DPP of 2005. They have argued, in multiple presentations to the MoD, that Indian industry is incapable of manufacturing defence equipment in the quantities needed, and that tough offset conditions would stall India's military modernisation programme. The MoD has responded by incrementally diluting offset norms. The latest DPP-2011 has permitted vendors to discharge offsets in the non-defence areas of civil aerospace, internal security and training.

Business Standard had reported last December on the MoD's violation of defence offset rules, while okaying Lockheed Martin Corporation's $275 million (Rs 1,266 crore) offset proposal, which related to the purchase of six C-130J Super Hercules transport aircraft. Neither the MoD, nor Lockheed Martin, denied that report; but that contract still stands. (In the second part: MoD set to dilute offset requirements further)

A este paso acabarán comprando en China :a5
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor champi el Mié Sep 07, 2011 5:18 pm

Otro accidente más de Mig-21, afortunadamente sin ví­ctimas: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110907/main7.htm
Umesh Dewan & Aman Sood
Tribune News Service

Shambhu (Rajpura/Patiala), September 6
In a miraculous escape, a young Indian Air Force (IAF) pilot sustained minor injuries after a MiG-21 combat aircraft crashed into a farm land, almost 100 metres away from Shambhu toll barrier, Rajpura, today morning.

The pilot who sustained injuries has been identified as Flight Lieutenant Aurnab Ghosh. The mishap took place at least 30 km away from densely populated city areas, and thus, no loss of life or property is reported. According to information, the aircraft pilot was in touch with the Air Traffic Controller (ATC) and it was just seconds before the crash that Ghosh ejected himself from the aircraft.

A visit to the site revealed that crops spread across half an acre of the farm land were destroyed owing to the crash. According to reports, the crash took place around 10.47 am and there was no loss of life. At the time of filing of this report, black box was yet to be recovered. According to reports, on account of a routine training sortie, Ghosh took off in the MiG-21 Bison, bearing number CV/2189, from the Ambala air force base today morning.

“At about 10.47 am, the aircraft crashed into farms near National Highway number 1, Rajpura. The impact of the collision was such that the wreckage of the aircraft created a deep crater,”said an eyewitness. Residents of villages situated near the site of the mishap said the impact of the collision was massive and the sound of a blast was heard in several nearby villages.

Following the mishap, police officers, along with IAF officials, reached the site and cordoned off the area. SP Rajpura Manmohan Sharma said the aircraft crashed into agricultural fields and there was no loss of life and property, though there was some damage to crops. “We are in touch with IAF officials. They are looking for the black box to ascertain the reasons behind the crash,”he said.

Meanwhile, speaking to TNS, Iqbal Singh, resident of a nearby village, who was present at the spot when the mishap took place, said he heard a loud sound and spotted an aircraft heading towards the fields. “I sighted a parachute heading downwards. The pilot got entangled in electricity wires and I helped him touch base. In no time, the aircraft hit the ground and caught fire,”he added.

PROBE ORDERED

Senior IAF officials went to the spot to carry out investigation. "We cannot disclose to you the nature of the accident but the pilot is safe and recuperating at IAF Hospital, Ambala. The air force has ordered a court of inquiry into the incident," said an IAF spokesperson, speaking to The Tribune.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor champi el Sab Sep 10, 2011 9:03 am

La India recibe su quinto C-130J y continúa mostrando su incapacidad de gestión, perdiendo piezas del Tejas y no controlando las recibidas del Hawk. Respecto al primero: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/part ... 05.html?cp
...
Though the bulky cargo went missing in December 2008 from London's Heathrow Airport after it was loaded onto an aircraft in the US, the government, surprisingly, is still clueless on its whereabouts. The consignment contained 15 actuators - devices that control the flow of material or power and which are a part of the integrated flight control system (IFCS) and line replaceable units (LRUs).

It was airlifted by a British Airways plane from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York on December 22, 2008. The aircraft was headed for Heathrow Airport, from where it was supposed to come to India and land at the doorstep of LCA manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Bangalore.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is likely to face embarrassment because the serious breach of security and the resultant financial loss is now on the Comptroller and Auditor General's (CAG) radar, sources in the defence ministry said.

A laboratory of the DRDO, the Aeronautical Development Establishment ( ADE), entered into a contract with BAE Systems Overseas Inc for the supply of 15 ship sets of IFCS and LRUs for the LCA at a total cost of more than $ 30 million, which works out to Rs. 135 crore.

While 14 containers reached HAL safely, the last consignment of actuators - 15 pieces, each weighing around 200 kg and valued at more than ` 10 crore - went missing, government sources revealed.

It is alleged that the DRDO did not insure the consignment - a contravention of the defence purchase regulation - owing to which the defence ministry was not in a position to claim damages for the missing parts, a government source said. The Purchase Management Procedure of 2006 clearly states that goods costing Rs. 2.5 crore and above should be insured against loss or damage in transit. It stipulates that the insurance cover must be obtained before the consignment is dispatched by the supplier.
...

Respecto al Hawk, cable de wikileaks: http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... s-own.html
By Stephen Trimble
...
The potential for HAL to successfully partner with U.S. firms on a truly advanced aircraft remains untested and suspect. The Hawk program, which involves the assembly of aircraft from kits supplied by BAE, is well behind schedule. BAE has told Embassy staff that the Indian Air Force did not order sufficient spare parts for the first batch of Hawks that were delivered fully assembled from England. BAE technicians supervising work at HAL became aware that parts were being taken from the kits intended to assemble new aircraft and used instead as replacement parts for aircraft already delivered. Lack of controls left BAE unsure what parts were now missing from the kits. When BAE confronted HAL regarding the problem, the BAE technical staff was asked to leave HAL. Clearly, despite the progress evident within the Indian Defense sector, American firms need to approach partnerships carefully to understand the management and technological experience of Indian firms. Cost, schedule and quality will be key challenges for any company engaging in JOINT production ventures.

Precio del Su-30MKI y del Tejas: http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=15213
Written by Anand
Thursday, 08 September 2011

New Delhi: Defence Minister Shri AK Antony said that the total cost of procurement of the Su-30 MKI is over Rs.55,717 crore while the cost of procurement of the TEJAS Light Combat Aircraft is about Rs.8691 crore.
...

Al cambio, el gasto de adquisición del Su-30 sale en $12.013 millones y el del Tejas en $1.873 millones.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor polluelo el Sab Sep 10, 2011 11:03 am

¿Y esperamos que esta gente sean los salvadores del programa Efa?
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Dom Sep 11, 2011 3:32 pm

¿Y esperamos que esta gente sean los salvadores del programa Efa?

Su concurso promueve el desarrollo de tecnologí­a que interesa a todo usuario de EFA de cara al futuro y de ganarlo inyectarí­an mucho dinero al programa. Luego ya cómo gestionen el caza en su paí­s acabarí­a siendo cosa suya, porque además quieren bastante independencia (normal cuando comprarí­an tantos). No hablamos de que por este contrato vayan a ser los que de repente lleven el progama EFA, que eso sí­ que serí­a peligroso.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor polluelo el Dom Sep 11, 2011 6:45 pm

Fiate de ellos, solo hay que ver como reaccionan en cuanto algo no sale como les parece que debe salir: echan a todo el mundo y se fuman un puro.

En el momento en que sean los que mas dinero ponen las normas las ponen ellos, y viendolos funcionar casi seria mejor que le dieran el contrato a otro.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor champi el Lun Sep 12, 2011 10:07 am

No siempre, así­ se puede ver cómo los putearon en el tema del portaaviones y la de pasta que siguen poniendo. Y no sólo en eso, ahora sale a la luz cómo los rusos les vendieron también R-77s para sus Mig-29K a pesar de "informes poco favorables", o cómo la compra de estas aeronaves se realizó desde la más completa improvisación: http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/09/au ... -r-77.html
...
"A critical armament for the MiG 29K aircraft is a BVR missile, which augments the ‘Beyond Visual Range' capability of the aircraft. The [R-77], one such BVR missile was acquired by the Indian Air Force between 1999 and 2002. However, the serviceability status of the missile, in evidence prior to the Navy contract of March 2006, has been poor as brought out in paragraph No. 3.2 of the Report of the C&AG of India, No. CA 18 of 2008-09. High rate of unserviceability was noticed by IAF since 1999 from the first lot of missiles received. By November 2005, IAF decided against refurbishing the missiles “X”after life expiry and started considering a suitable replacement for future procurements. Nonetheless, Indian Navy concluded the contract in March 2006 for supply of armaments for MiG-29K aircraft which, inter alia, catered for supply of 40 Air to Air missiles [R-77] at a cost of USD 21.88 million. Audit noted that there was a delay of 51 months in finalising the weapon package for MiG 29K aircraft, Indian Navy failed to adopt an integrated approach to utilise the data/knowledge base of IAF and consequently ended up by procuring 40 missiles worth USD 21.88 million (Rs 97.67 crore) whose serviceability has been found unreliable by the IAF. Thus, the Ministry modified the decision of CFA by decreasing the quantity of approved armament and procured additional items worth Rs 93.68 crore which were not envisaged at the time of seeking approval of CFA to sustain within the financial ceiling. Further, Indian Navy procured Air to Air missiles [R-77] costing USD 21.88 million which had a track record of poor serviceability for which the IAF is seeking replacement since November 2005. The matter was referred to the Ministry in November 2010; their reply was awaited as of July 2011."

Respecto al Mig-29K: http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/09/au ... k-buy.html
...
"Flawed approach in acquiring 16 MiG-29K aircraft, at a cost of Rs 3,405.61 crore ($736-million at today's exchange rates) without finalizing the associated package with the procurement of the aircraft, in January 2004, led to delivery of six aircraft in December 2009 without weapons. Subsequently, five more aircraft were delivered in May 2011. The armament for the aircraft were contracted for only in March 2006 which led to non delivery of weapons till October 2010, adversely affecting the operational capabilities of the aircraft. Besides, the Beyond Visual Range missiles (Vympel R-77/RVV-AE) contracted for the aircraft, at a cost of Rs 93.68 crore ($20.2-million at today's exchange rates), has had an unsatisfactory track record with Indian Air Force."
...

El informe original para descargar aquí­: http://saiindia.gov.in/english/home/Our ... no_20.html

Y es que en la India hasta los de arriba son capaces de cambiar cosas como la fecha de nacimiento para seguir en sus puestos: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/age- ... 50690.html
Army chief General V.K. Singh said he was born in 1950. It got him three crucial promotions as corps commander, army commander and finally, army chief. General Singh now wants the government to change his date of birth to 1951. A change in date will extend his tenure by 10 months.
...
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Lun Sep 12, 2011 3:47 pm

En el momento en que sean los que mas dinero ponen las normas las ponen ellos, y viendolos funcionar casi seria mejor que le dieran el contrato a otro.

Hombre, muy exagerado. Los 4 socios no vamos de repente a perder el control del programa EFA. Mucho más dinero hemos puesto nosotros y muchos más cazas tenemos contratados. Por otro lado, no les va nada mal con el Su-30MKI y ahí­ andan asociados con los rusos para el T-50 PAK FA. De hecho, son el escaparate perfecto del MKI y, por extensión, de los derivados de Flanker (incluyendo en Red Flag, en RU, en los Indra Danush...). Vamos, que no parece que hablando de cazas recientes sean un desastre que dé mala imagen precisamente (sí­ con su LCA Tejas, pero es suyo, no de otros, y no es reciente tecnológicamente). Todo lo contrario: se han vuelto la referencia donde mirar capacidades de Sujoi para muchos otros paí­ses. Creo que lo mismo pasarí­a con el Typhoon.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor polluelo el Lun Sep 12, 2011 5:07 pm

Ya, pero has usado los tiempos verbales perfectamente; hemos puesto, a partir de ahora serán ellos los que pongan. Y si no ponen el barco se hunde.

Si yo fuera ellos lo tendria muy claro, si llego con una morterada de billetes a salvar un programa donde los socios están buscando la mas mí­nima excusa para quitarse de enmedio y hay varios que ya han dicho que no quieren mas aviones el que manda a partir de ese momento soy yo. Y si no me marcho por donde he venido y el programa que se hunda, como tengo dos docenas mas de ellos abiertos yo no pierdo nada. Vosotros vereis que os interesa.

Las negociaciones y contrapartidas no son solo en piezas y puestos de trabajo.
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Re: India y su industria aeronáutica

Notapor Orel el Lun Sep 12, 2011 5:19 pm

hemos puesto, a partir de ahora serán ellos los que pongan. Y si no ponen el barco se hunde.

Hombre, no me creo que los socios no volvieran a invertir nunca, ni en mejoras continuas ni en una gran MLU en su momento. Que la crisis no durará toda la vida y aún estamos con mentalidad de la misma.
donde los socios están buscando la mas mí­nima excusa para quitarse de enmedio y hay varios que ya han dicho que no quieren mas aviones

Sí­, RU e Italia. Por otro lado, Alemania y España han expresado varias veces su intención de adquirir todos.
Y si no me marcho por donde he venido y el programa que se hunda

Un programa que da apoyo a más de 560 aviones con décadas de uso en 6 paí­ses no se va a hundir así­ como así­. No conseguirá todos los aviones esperados para los socios, pero sí­ el 70%, que no es precisamente "haber fallado" con tantas crisis de por medio. La industria no conseguirá tanto beneficio, eso sí­.
Las negociaciones y contrapartidas no son solo en piezas y puestos de trabajo.

Lo sé, pero tampoco es como pareces exponerlo: que como la India es un desastre gestionando programas y que como con este contrato poco menos que se harí­an con el control del del Typhoon, estamos perdidos. Y no es así­.

Un saludo
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